leg,feet,hand cramps

[Suzy Q]

My husband goes for dialysis at the hospital 3 times a week, Mon, Wed and Fri. Sometimes, when he has gained too much, the Dr will have him come for an extra session. When this happens, he ends up going 3 days in a row. After the 3rd time, he experiences severe cramps hours after, in his hands, legs and sometimes his feet. They come and go for most of the rest of that day. He feels much better the next day. I am wondering if this is because his dry weight needs to be increased and too much has been taken off. Has anyone else experienced this or know why this happens? I'd appreciate hearing from others who may have experienced this. It is agony to watch him suffer like this... he's not a wimp so it's not like him to show such pain! Thank you!!!

[angieskidney]

Re: leg,feet,hand cramps

My husband goes for dialysis at the hospital 3 times a week, Mon, Wed and Fri. Sometimes, when he has gained too much, the Dr will have him come for an extra session. When this happens, he ends up going 3 days in a row. After the 3rd time, he experiences severe cramps hours after, in his hands, legs and sometimes his feet. They come and go for most of the rest of that day. He feels much better the next day. I am wondering if this is because his dry weight needs to be increased and too much has been taken off. Has anyone else experienced this or know why this happens? I'd appreciate hearing from others who may have experienced this. It is agony to watch him suffer like this... he's not a wimp so it's not like him to show such pain! Thank you!!!

I used to cramp a lot (and everyone cramps in different places .. for me it was always the stomach and only on the one side of it) and it was because I drank too much (always had 3 - 4 k on me) and they were trying to pull it off in 3 1/2 hrs .. and that was too much in such a short time and made me cramp. If I had a longer session they could have done it.

It really hurt me and sometimes I felt so helpless that I got emotional because of how bad the cramping was and I felt like a fool crying in public. You think "it is just a cramp! I feel like a big baby / so helpless" and it is so frustrating. But it does get bad. I found that if I snacked, it had to be in the first hour only and not eat a thing in the last 2 hrs .. and then I didn't cramp all the time .. just once in awhile (like after a weekend) if I came in too heavy.

[jeffmoore]

Re: leg,feet,hand cramps

My husband goes for dialysis at the hospital 3 times a week, Mon, Wed and Fri. Sometimes, when he has gained too much, the Dr will have him come for an extra session. When this happens, he ends up going 3 days in a row. After the 3rd time, he experiences severe cramps hours after, in his hands, legs and sometimes his feet. They come and go for most of the rest of that day. He feels much better the next day. I am wondering if this is because his dry weight needs to be increased and too much has been taken off. Has anyone else experienced this or know why this happens? I'd appreciate hearing from others who may have experienced this. It is agony to watch him suffer like this... he's not a wimp so it's not like him to show such pain! Thank you!!!

Suzy Q, it is sad to say that cramping does happen to a dialysis pts. from time to time. What you said about the weight being adjusted, could be a factor, but there are remedies that I have learned through the years from other veteran dialysis pts. like for instance, one pts. use to tell me to drink tonic water with quinine right before treatment, and you could have your husband's neprologist prescribe some quinine for him to relieve his cramping, but they could be taking the fluid off too fast, and it maybe because he is coming in over his dry weight, and his schedule amount of time on dialysis, may not be enough time to get the excess fluid off.

In my book, I talk about fluid restriction - The fluids consumed between dialysis sessions will build up in the blood and tissues, causing swelling in the pts. ankles and feet. Fluid can also collect in the lungs or around your heart, causing shortness of breath or in some cases if severe, congestive heart failure. If a pts. drank over the allow amount, it becomes more difficult to remove in one dialysis session, and as a result excess fluid gains can cause low blood pressure, cramping, nausea and in some cases vomiting toward the end of hemo treatment. Note: Between hemodialysis treatments your fluid gain should be about 1 to 3 kilograms or 2 to 6 pounds.

Also note: A pts. total fluid intake per day will vary according to the remainder kidney function that they have left. (Every pts. is different).

I developed congestive heart failure, because of my issues with AV Grafts, I was coming in so severely swollen, that the techs and nurses had the hardest time determining what was excess fluid and what appeared to be edema, this went on for a year. I talk about this extensively in my book, it was quite a dilemma for me, that is one reason why I had to stop hemo, and transition to peritoneal dialysis. The techs and nurse never knew when I was at my dry weight or if they even took enough off, it was quite a task, but I am happy to be on PD.

Glo

[Suzy Q]

Re: leg,feet,hand cramps

Angie and Glo,
Thanks for your replies. Here in Canada, they have stopped giving quinine...something about it not being safe, I think, so that's out. He has just recovered from cellulitis in his leg, so when we asked about his dry weight being increased, the neph said he wouldn't consider it until the cellulitis was cleared up. It is now, so we'll ask again. He already had congestive heart failure. That happened after he came home from the hospital after recovering from septic shock. We didn't know at the release time, that the sepsis had damaged his kidneys. That's when he started dialysis.
His nose is totally blocked all the time, so he breathes through his mouth and of course, it gets really dry. He's seen an ENT, has had a CT scan and we're now waiting on the follow up appt with the ENT to see what he's going to suggest for his nose. We've taken all his suggestions...I bought him an ice crushing machine and he sucks on ice chips instead of drinking fluids. He got a humidifier yesterday for Christmas to help with his nose. We're trying... he's got a great attitude and tries to follow all their suggestions and diet etc. Hopefully, after clearing his nose, he'll be less thirsty!

Suzy Q

[angieskidney]

Re: leg,feet,hand cramps

I hope you find out more info soon. For myself I need a humidifier as well (air gets dry here .. even though I am in Canada as well, it is because I am on the 5th floor I am told is the reason for the dry air) but I have used both the hot steam and the cold mist ones. Hot is better as it kills the germs I am told. What kind did you get?

Also in the States there is some mouth spray stuff to keep a mouth wet but I have not been able to find anything like that anywhere in Canada.. Chewing gum seemed to help me however.

[Suzy Q]

Re: leg,feet,hand cramps

Angie,
We got a cold mist one. Our daughter bought it and she has 2 toddlers, so she got the kind recommended for them. It seems to be helping. We also got a mouthwash for dry mouths but it doesn't seem to do much good. The spray is not available here. We also tried dry mouth gum and he said it was bad tasting and hard. Regular gum and hard candies seem to help. Snow cones should be good for next summer, maybe slushies too!

[angieskidney]

Re: leg,feet,hand cramps

Angie,
We got a cold mist one. Our daughter bought it and she has 2 toddlers, so she got the kind recommended for them. It seems to be helping. We also got a mouthwash for dry mouths but it doesn't seem to do much good. The spray is not available here. We also tried dry mouth gum and he said it was bad tasting and hard. Regular gum and hard candies seem to help. Snow cones should be good for next summer, maybe slushies too!

Ah yeah the cold one makes sense when it comes to little ones as the hot one (the steam one) depending on brand, can burn.

I remember I bought a mickey mouse looking ice shaver for snow cones. I didn't really like it so much and was disappointed in it. Now they have blenders that can cut ice or shave ice (there is a difference in the 2 terms) but they are kinda expensive as it seems like that is the latest in wanted features of blenders lately..

[Dashound]

Re: leg,feet,hand cramps

Hi! I don't get cramps but if they take off to much flude to fast I start to shake and feel like I'll throw up. I get really weak and thre's been times my hubby has had to come and get me because I couldn't drive home. When I get home I shake and throw up for a while then go to sleep .I sleep the day away. I've talked to the doctor about cutting my time down(I go 4 hours) but he won't. I'm fine up to 3 hours then start getting shaking and sick. It's not fun losing 3 days out of the week being to sick and weak to even get out of bed. I still have one kidney that works.My weight gain is aways 2 to 3 . I just don't know or understand what is going on with me.

[angieskidney]

Re: leg,feet,hand cramps

Hi! I don't get cramps but if they take off to much flude to fast I start to shake and feel like I'll throw up. I get really weak and thre's been times my hubby has had to come and get me because I couldn't drive home. When I get home I shake and throw up for a while then go to sleep .I sleep the day away. I've talked to the doctor about cutting my time down(I go 4 hours) but he won't. I'm fine up to 3 hours then start getting shaking and sick. It's not fun losing 3 days out of the week being to sick and weak to even get out of bed. I still have one kidney that works.My weight gain is aways 2 to 3 . I just don't know or understand what is going on with me.

Cutting back time won't improve things as that is not the problem. Sounds like it could be fluid in your case or the toxins in your blood (can't say without knowing labs of course .. only your medical team can tell you for sure the cause .. or more sure than I could anyway). When I first started dialysis I was getting sick a lot because I had so much toxins in my body and it took a few months for me to finally feel better. By my 2nd year I felt better on dialysis. I did my own research and found out that longer time is better because shorter time is like going through McDonald's for your food instead of cooking it properly at home. Sure it is fast in and out but what are the consequences. Sadly people don't usually know. All they want is to be off that darn machine. I know of a lady in PA who is on incenter nocturnal dialysis. Take a look at this:

http://www.davita.com/dialysis/treatment/a/1229

http://www.homedialysis.org/resources/tom/200601/

Anyway, back to what you were saying. Many things can make us feel just terrible on dialysis but it is rarely dialysis that is making us feel like crap. Frankly, dialysis done only (4 hrs x 3 times a week =) 12 hours a week. How is that as good as real kidneys that work (24 hrs x 7 days =) 168 hrs a week?

So because of only having so much dialysis the need to control how much fluid we drink and how much potassium we eat and how much phosphate we put into our bodies and salt, etc, is so very VERY important in the result of how we will feel at the end of treatments. But I found for me that my issue was my blood pressure. It would drop from 140/110 to 70/50 many times. I adjusted the settings on my machine (which was the Fresenius 2008K) and made it so that it would pull off fluid on a slope .. more at the beginning than at the last hour. I found this easier for my body as I found the last hour was when my blood pressure would just drop without notice, I would cramp, and I would feel so tired / drained after wards .. and so very thirsty that I would put on a k before even getting home from drinking water to make up for how I felt.

This is why home hemo interested me. NxStage sounds very good and I have been reading a lot about that on the NxStageUsers Forum.

[Suzy Q]

Re: leg,feet,hand cramps

Hi Angie,
My husband is at dialysis now and just called to say that the Dr increased his dry weight this morning! He was sooo happy! We knew he'd gained some weight as his clothes are tighter.
As I said, I found a machine that shreds ice. You put in whole cubes and it shreds them up. It is made by Waring and it was about $45. I then got him an insulated cup at Starbucks, so he shreds his ice, fills his cup and takes it with us when we go out. It came with a lid and straw so it works for him!
Thanks for your advice. You seem very knowledgeable and I enjoy reading your messages of support to others. Was it you who spent some time at Sick Kids? That's where we are so know it well!

[angieskidney]

Re: leg,feet,hand cramps

Hi Angie,
My husband is at dialysis now and just called to say that the Dr increased his dry weight this morning! He was sooo happy! We knew he'd gained some weight as his clothes are tighter.
As I said, I found a machine that shreds ice. You put in whole cubes and it shreds them up. It is made by Waring and it was about $45. I then got him an insulated cup at Starbucks, so he shreds his ice, fills his cup and takes it with us when we go out. It came with a lid and straw so it works for him!
Thanks for your advice. You seem very knowledgeable and I enjoy reading your messages of support to others. Was it you who spent some time at Sick Kids? That's where we are so know it well!

Yes I was at Sick Kids from 1982 to 1992 and had my first kidney transplant there. Now I am through London where I received my 2nd kidney transplant. Been going there since I turned 18.

[Dashound]

Re: leg,feet,hand cramps

Thanks for the information This shaking and being sick all started when I got the flu about 8 to 10 weeks ago. Before that I was fine. Sometimes my BP would drop to low or they would take off to much fluids but I never got like this. I've been on dialysis close to a year (Jan 12th) and all was well till that darn flu. Tnought I'd never get rid of it. I had it pretty bad. Anyway Doctor was in yesterday and saw how I acted and he's cut my time by 1/2 to see how things go. If not good then some tests are in order.I go today to get the port out of my chest. Been in there for close to a year. Had lots of trouble with my arm but now it's up and running. So glad cause now I can take a big girl shower instead of bending over to shower and wash my hair.This is the best Christmas present I could ever get.
My blood work is real good. Everything is level. At the right numbers.Anyway, thanks for the information. Dashound

[phorechuk]

Keeping Healthy with Diabetes and CKD

I've been on dialysis for a year now. I've checked other posts and there are issues with cramping. Some say it has been banned in Canada due to side effects. I use quinine sulphate myself. It works. I went through about 3 months at the beginning without it and I tell you it really helps.

I currently have a chest catheter. Some of the doctors have tried to get me to go for a fistula, but I want no part of that. I've seen too many others having bleeding problems.

I've also seen others complaining about things to do while on dialysis; some of the centres seem to be rather barren. Where I go, we have basic cable with access to about 50 channels. Each TV is actually a widescreen LCD screen with keyboard attached to a PC running Linux. They have full internet access. Although some sites may be blocked, the web admin is quite willing to reconsider blocked sites upon request. Thus is shear luxury in comparison!

Last month I decided I wanted to write a blog about my experiences. As I get inspiration about topics, I post them to http://pdhquick.blogspot.com please come by for a visit and let me know what you think.

[heroisthai]

Re: leg,feet,hand cramps

Thanks for the information This shaking and being sick all started when I got the flu about 8 to 10 weeks ago. Before that I was fine. Sometimes my BP would drop to low or they would take off to much fluids but I never got like this. I've been on dialysis close to a year (Jan 12th) and all was well till that darn flu.







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[Melnrach82]

I have cramping the day after dialysis my feet and hands are the worst they spaz out petty bad any body else experience this?