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  • Phosphorus and potassium in Milk substitutes

    My husband is in late stage 4 but not yet on dialysis. We are not yet working with a dietitian. Does anyone know of a table showing the phosphorus and potassium of milk substitutes (hopefully by brand name)? Some renal recipes call for dairy rich non-dairy creamer. When I checked the USDA database it appears that non dairy creamers are lower in phosphorus than whole milk but actually higher in potassium. It is possible that they vary by brand but of course nutrition labels (in general) donít list phosphorus and potassium. According to the USDA data base, regular soy milk is somewhat lower in phosphorus and potassium than whole milk but still high in potassium. The USDA data base only lists canned rice milk (Rice Dream). Are the nutrients for the canned & boxed product the same? What does it taste like Ė phosphorus and potassium are low but can you really substitute it for milk in recipes?
    "Cooking for David" renal cookbook says to use Vitamite 100 low fat milk substitute. My local grocery store said they couldnít get it because it was discontinued by the manufacturer. It was unclear if this was all Vitamite products or just the low fat. I have emailed Vitamite but not yet received a reply.

  • #2
    try Rice milk maybe....Rice Dream

    Hi,
    I'm not a dietician. but I do know that Rice Dream is low in phosphates and everything else.

    personally I wouldn't want to use creamer on all my food, most creamers are made from alot of oils that are bad for your heart and would probably give you a heart attack or cholesterol problems if u used them for too long.
    I wouldn't want to drink a quart of cooking oil every day........same goes for creamer.

    But Rice Dream is quite healthy. most dieticians I spoke to though had absolutely no idea what Rice Milk was though.

    but they have 4 or 5 flavours now, vanilla is the nicest, there is a "chocolate" one made from carob and a plain one, also strawberry i think.

    you can find them at any big grocery store.

    i think the website is www.tastethedream.com

    for nutrition info go to:

    http://www.tastethedream.com/media/RDnutri_V.jpg

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by public1946
      My husband is in late stage 4 but not yet on dialysis. We are not yet working with a dietitian. Does anyone know of a table showing the phosphorus and potassium of milk substitutes (hopefully by brand name)? Some renal recipes call for dairy rich non-dairy creamer. When I checked the USDA database it appears that non dairy creamers are lower in phosphorus than whole milk but actually higher in potassium. It is possible that they vary by brand but of course nutrition labels (in general) donít list phosphorus and potassium. According to the USDA data base, regular soy milk is somewhat lower in phosphorus and potassium than whole milk but still high in potassium. The USDA data base only lists canned rice milk (Rice Dream). Are the nutrients for the canned & boxed product the same? What does it taste like Ė phosphorus and potassium are low but can you really substitute it for milk in recipes?
      "Cooking for David" renal cookbook says to use Vitamite 100 low fat milk substitute. My local grocery store said they couldnít get it because it was discontinued by the manufacturer. It was unclear if this was all Vitamite products or just the low fat. I have emailed Vitamite but not yet received a reply.
      I am so glad this was asked, I have really been working hard to learn everything before I start dialysis, I read where you could use Non dairy creamer on ceral. But what brand and where do you find it, I know it can't be that non dairy creamer you have in a jar to put in your coffee, I can't see putting that in ceral. I miss my seral in the mornings..Sue

      Comment


      • #4
        hmmm...

        i don't know if you all know this or not but TOMATOE'S and POTATOE'S and EGG'S and BREAD all have phosphorus ..........

        Comment


        • #5
          Yep!!! I know, I think if you soak the potatoes for three or four hours before you cook them it takes alot out. And on my diet sheet it says no more then one egg aday. I just miss my ceral and trying to find out what kind of milk I can have on it...I know once I start dialysis I will learn more about our diet and what I can and can't have, I am just trying to get it all together before I start. My brother had his cath put in for home dialysis day before yesterday. He will start in two weeks. It is so strange how both of us have the same health problems and are a year apart. I forgot what his % was but mine is still at 17% and the doc says the goverment will not pay for dialysis until you are at 15 or below. My brother has private insurance right now but will be getting medicare, he also just found out he is anemic and had to have a transfusion and has to have these 800 dollar shots, some type of hormone for his cells, I found out years ago that I would some day have to have dialysis and he finds out just a few months ago that he would have to have it and now he will start treatment before me, I think it is sad that people have to get sicker before the Government will help us.

          Comment


          • #6
            Milk Substitutes

            Mocha Mix is an old brand of milk substitute. It comes in fat free as well as original. I've also seen something called vitamite listed in recipes. Hope this helps.

            Comment


            • #7
              I think by "creamer" what I was told was to use that coffee rich stuff you find in the fridge at eh grocery store.
              It comes in a plastic bottle or cardboard container- sometimes is frozen i have been told.

              you could still maybe have cereal.
              are you allowed to eat oatmeal?
              I know alot of "normal" people who eat oatmeal cereal with just hot water or cold water even.

              I have even seen people put water and vanilla sugar on cereal instead of milk. I don't think it would be that great, but i am sure it would still be passable.

              Comment


              • #8
                Great discussion about milk substitutes -- and wish I had a more comprehensive list to offer but I don't at the moment. We'll add it to our list of "to do" items.

                In the meantime, I suggest that my patients use liquid non-dairy creamer (like the liquid coffeemate found in the dairy case) on their cereal, or the others mentioned here -- Mocha Mix (frozen) or Rice Dream (baking section of grocery), and before reading this and hearing it may be discontinued, VitaMite (milk aisle).

                There is one other new product called Dairy Delicious that you may want to research (non-dairy milk substitute).

                In the meantime - I really like this suggestion - limit the milk you put on your cereal (yes, real milk) to about 1/3 cup, then use a fork to eat the cereal -- leaving the milk behind. That way, you'll be leaving behind some of the phosphorus found in the milk. Do not drink the milk that's left -- just use the very minimal amount you need for your cereal.

                Phosphorus is found in almost every food -- so you'll always be learning ways to moderate the amount you take in -- and once you start dialysis, you'll be given a meal plan to help keep you on track. Good luck for now.
                ------------------------------------------------------
                The response of this moderator is not an attempt to address a specific condition. Please note that the DaVita.com discussion forums do not provide medical advice or professional opinions about specific conditions. The purpose of the discussion forums is to provide an opportunity for individuals to discuss end stage renal disease and related topics. The discussion forms are not a substitute for professional medical care. For questions or

                Comment


                • #9
                  Thank you for al your help, I am going to do the 1/3 cup of milk and eat it with a fork and don't drink the milk. That is a very good idea Now I can have my ceral again.Sue

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by CajunSue
                    Thank you for al your help, I am going to do the 1/3 cup of milk and eat it with a fork and don't drink the milk. That is a very good idea Now I can have my ceral again.Sue
                    Excellent idea!!

                    If you use Extra Strength Tums as a binder with meals, it will divert the phosphorus to the bowel instead of the kidneys, and you can increase the amount of phosphorus you consume.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      A word of caution regarding 'binders'. Every patient is different and has a binder specifically chosen for him/her by the physician and/or dietitain based on the results of their bloodwork. This is a great discussion to have with your dietitan and/or nephrologist.

                      I like to use the explanation of the 'sponge'... binders work like a sponge to 'soak up' the excess phosphorus in the gut from a meal, keeping the excess phosphorus there until you have a bowel movement. If you forget your binder and the phosphorus gets absorbed into the blood stream, that's how you get an elevated phosphorus level on lab work day.

                      It is really very individual and is based on the amount and kind of foods eaten. I wish it were simple -- wouldn't it be great if we knew each egg or each ounce of meat needed an exact number of this or that type of binder?

                      Let's add that to our "to do" list, too. Good luck again to you all.
                      ------------------------------------------------------
                      The response of this moderator is not an attempt to address a specific condition. Please note that the DaVita.com discussion forums do not provide medical advice or professional opinions about specific conditions. The purpose of the discussion forums is to provide an opportunity for individuals to discuss end stage renal disease and related topics. The discussion forms are not a substitute for professional medical care. For questions or

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by CajunSue
                        Thank you for al your help, I am going to do the 1/3 cup of milk and eat it with a fork and don't drink the milk. That is a very good idea Now I can have my ceral again.Sue

                        People actually drink the milk that comes with their cereal??
                        Hmmm, I've never done that and it seems a bit strange.
                        I don't like milk to being with, so maybe that could be why.
                        I guess if you like milk, in theory it would be less wasteful if you did drink what was in your bowl....
                        I guess we all have out funny habbits.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          This was also a wonderful idea, I am passing it on to my brother too, he start his home dialysis in two weeks as soon as his catherter heals. Extra strength Tums just got added to my shopping list.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by CajunSue
                            This was also a wonderful idea, I am passing it on to my brother too, he start his home dialysis in two weeks as soon as his catherter heals. Extra strength Tums just got added to my shopping list.
                            Just be sure to check w/ the Neph first, as he/she may have already prescribed another binder, or prefer to prescribe something else. Hubby's Neph said the Extra Stength Tums work as well as anything else, with almost no side effects, and are very cheap -- but check w/ your Neph first.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Update on availability of vitamite

                              Iím the person who posted the original request about comparisons of phosphorus and potassium in milk substitutes. Iíve been away from the discussion boards for a few days (taking care of lots of stuff before my husband enters the hospital next week to start dialysis) and was really surprised to see all the recent responses to that post. When vitamite didnít respond to my email I called them and learned the following. The company in my area that use to purchase the dry vitamite powder in bulk and create a liquid consumer size product which they distributed to grocery stores is no longer doing that. I donít know how large a geographic area they served Ė just the metro DC area, all mid-atlantic or what. Vitamite no longer sells the powder in consumer size packages. The smallest container they now sell is 50 pounds or makes 50 gallons, I donít remember which. When my husband is assigned to a dialysis center, Iím hoping several patients will split an order with me. In the meantime, Iím using coffeemate liquid non-dairy creamer & diluting by 50-75% with water.

                              Originally posted by Maria
                              Great discussion about milk substitutes -- and wish I had a more comprehensive list to offer but I don't at the moment. We'll add it to our list of "to do" items.

                              In the meantime, I suggest that my patients use liquid non-dairy creamer (like the liquid coffeemate found in the dairy case) on their cereal, or the others mentioned here -- Mocha Mix (frozen) or Rice Dream (baking section of grocery), and before reading this and hearing it may be discontinued, VitaMite (milk aisle).

                              There is one other new product called Dairy Delicious that you may want to research (non-dairy milk substitute).

                              In the meantime - I really like this suggestion - limit the milk you put on your cereal (yes, real milk) to about 1/3 cup, then use a fork to eat the cereal -- leaving the milk behind. That way, you'll be leaving behind some of the phosphorus found in the milk. Do not drink the milk that's left -- just use the very minimal amount you need for your cereal.

                              Phosphorus is found in almost every food -- so you'll always be learning ways to moderate the amount you take in -- and once you start dialysis, you'll be given a meal plan to help keep you on track. Good luck for now.

                              Comment

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